to include or not

i just started working at a company.?their website is:

prosol1.com

the two co-workers here have never designed a website.?one seems to be hung up on the circle in upper left - the red swirl design.

i'm trying to convince them to create a whole new fresher look, and to definitely not use flash [like it is now] for the main navigation.?i'm also trying to convince them that a fresher design will also allow me to incorporate things like templates, includes, and so on.

so they've agreed to let me try two versions in FW - one with the red swirl left intact, but re-configured so that the nav is not flash.?and two - a whole new fresh design along the lines of igov.com [we're a contractor like igov.com].

so my DW question is - while i'm doing this, they also want to incorporate ''baby'' changes.?for example, the footer used to just be raw HTML - no includes.?when i started, i did a find and replace to change the copyright date to 2009.

i may be wrong, but is it better to not put includes into a page like this??is it better to put includes into the new design [as you build it] and for the existing pages, just do find and replaces for the footer, dates, etc?

please advise.

to include or not

I like the circle, it plays little in the overall effectivness of the site, but I think it is very nice graphically speaking.

Definitly get rid of the flash menu, big BIG mistake.?Many computer, in particular those behidnd full time IT firewalls do not have flash, so limted navigation.

The flash movie as it is, is a waste of time, it says nothing (unless you already know the message).?If you are going to keep a flash movie, let it say something, clearly. Let it make a point.

Includes...yes, so easy to change, there is no difference to the html, it all performs the same.

Now your idea to do this in FW....mistake.?If you are just looking to do a mock up to see what it looks like, maybe ok, but you might have problems transposing to DW.?I would just do it right in DW.

Gary

to include or not

Let me add...after looking at your site, I still dont really know what you do.?I think it is a critical mistake not to let the viewer/visitor understand, within a few seconds.

Who you are.

What you do

For whom you do it

How to reach you.

With out going into reading your text, you miss the mark on all 4, you dont even have a contact link as a primary link...

Gary

Deaf Mike wrote:

i may be wrong, but is it better to not put includes into a page like this??is it better to put includes into the new design [as you build it] and for the existing pages, just do find and replaces for the footer, dates, etc?

Appreciate all of your comments.?The red circle is a personal choice - I personally like things simple but the red circle is not horrid - just not fond of it.

But more importantly, I thought you could only add includes in a template file.?I didn't realize you could put them in a page saved as .html

Is there a quick tutorial somewhere you could point me to on how to do this?

Thanks again - Deaf Mike

But more importantly, I thought you could only add includes in a template file.?I didn't realize you could put them in a page saved as .html

OK, i just made my first SSI.?i have a problem with it displaying live on my server though.?it works fine when i view it locally on my desktop.

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssiimage.jpg

the link above shows DW and the code for the SSI and how it is displaying the SSI in the design view.

now when i took these pages to the server, the html page is not showing the SSI.?here are the pages:

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssi_test.html

and

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssi_test.shtm

BTW - i went into the HTML page and tried the file paths two different ways -- one with the short path like

ssi_test.shtm

and one with the long path like:

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssi_test.shtm

and neither one of them worked.

could this be a problem with our server??does it need to be tweaked so it reads SSI's??the IT guy here is unfamiliar with any of this so if you can pass on any server instructions to help me fix this, it's much appreciated.

deaf mike

The include file can be called anything you like, but the page needs to be saved as either index.shtml or index.html.

If you name it html, you will need to make sure that the server knows to parse html pages as shtml.

You may need to contact the hosting company and let them know that you want the html pages to be parsed as shtml pages.?Most hosts will do this automatically for you.

if you do have problems with this, then possibly php includes may be th eway to go instead.?You use a php include and name the pages with a php extension:?eg:?index.php .?This is assuming the remote server is linux.

Using PHP includes if your server supports php:

http://www.w3schools.com/PHP/php_includes.asp?

Hmm, this is getting more complicated than i thought.

first, i re-named the page to index:

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/index.html

that did not work.?but if it did, then what if i have a 100-page site with different names [like about.html; etc].?does that mean that the SSI would not work because the other pages aren't named ''index''?

second, we have our own server sitting in a closet.?it's not through a host company.?so i need to tell the IT guy what to do to fix it.

third, what if i don't want to use PHP??or in reality, what if i don't know how to use PHP and just want to stick with plain old HTML??surely there has to be a way to make this work because in my old job - back in 2005 - this other guy who did websites was happily using SSI's in plain old HTML.

so there has to be a way to make this work without getting into a whole other language here.

Ok forget about php includes?:-)?but they are very very easy to use nonetheless?:-)

If you are using ssi's, then yes, you can save the page with a html extension, but the server, whether it's hosted remotely or locally as you have - then the server needs to know that there is an include on the page to carry out the action of the include?(very basic explanation).

Therefore, yes,I do believe that the IT guy need to make a few changes so that the html pages can parse the includes if you don't want to use the shtml extension.

eg:?I have a site that I recreated a little while ago where I switched to using includes.?I used the following convention for naming the includes:?footer.html; header.html etc.?(NOT header.shtml or footer.shtml).

However, as I already had well over 50 pages on the site and didn't want to rename the extension of the?pages themselves to shtml extensions

eg:?index.html, aboutus.html etc

to

index.shtml; aboutus.shtml

I had to ask my host to make a change on the server, so that the html pages could read the SSIs.

PS:?Remember also, that the include is not to have any html code inside it whatsoever.?No body tags, no html tags, only the actual content ...

This content can be styled via the stylesheet too by the way.

I call an include into the page like so:?(where the quickjump include is saved in an includes folder)

%26lt;!--#include virtual=''includes/quickjump.html'' --%26gt;

I hope this is clearer.

Actually, I think the only problem you may have is the path to the include:

If you navigate directly to the include, you can see the include:

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssi_test.shtm

However, your include statement reads:?(note the missing firworks folder path)

%26lt;!--#include virtual=''ssi_test.shtm'' --%26gt;


what about you try:

%26lt;!--#include virtual=''fireworks/ssi_test.shtm'' --%26gt;

Yeah, that's what I thought too.?The server is displaying the shtm page fine, but won't when the HTML page comes up.?I just made the change you suggested and it still doesn't work:

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssi_test.html

Wow, I'm stumped.?Can you maybe create the exact same kind of file on your server and see if it works and then send it to me if it does??Just wondering if you could get it to work.

Any other ideas as well?

I just told someone how to create an include here

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/489538?tstart=0

see if that helps.

Gary

This doesn't answer my main question of suppose I don't want to use PHP?

I know I have to be doing the example one correct but there is just something wrong to keep it from displaying.?I mean, if you go to the actual .shtm page, it displays the include info like it should:

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssi_test.shtm

Yet, when I add the code to my html page to call this file up, it will not work:

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssi_test.html

And when I do it locally [both files sitting on my desktop] DW itself recognizes the include and displays it in the DW windows:

http://prosol1.com/fireworks/ssiimage.jpg

So again, there has to be one small error in what I'm doing that is keeping it from working.?And I really do not want to learn PHP - I've spend enough time through the years learning HTML, CSS, and others and don't have the time or energy to learn yet another language.

Please advise.

red lipstick